Greatings from Israel

[Mishuh]

for us,the terms "jews" and "israelis" means pretty much the same. the fact that calling someone a jew is an insult really irritates us.

An insult works only if the other side feels insulted. I hope you know what I mean. Cracovia's jews (I'll explain why in small letters) is traditionally a nickname, not an insult as such. It came from them having some supposed Jewish roots and very liberal policy towards players of different natyionalities and religion.
And the fact that they called themselves "Jude Gang" and their stadium "holy ground" just means they take it as normal thing. That's just how they are being called, althoguh many don't like it.

And for me Jew and Israeli is definately not the same. Polish grammar even distinguishes these two cases. We write "jew" (small letters) for someone who is of Jewish belief (we write all religions in small letters) and in capital letters Jew means Israeli. That's why Cracovia are called jews (as a nickname), while you're Jews(=Israelis).

I don't really see antisemitism in the naming itself.
But of course some supporters use the Jewish symbols to piss Cracovia off. Why? Because they like pissing Cracovia off, not because they are antisemitic. (surely I cannot speak for everyone, I'm sure there are some radicals hating Jews, but it's just a bunch, don't judge everyone).

Just of curiosity: Do you also think that calling Tottenham Yids is abusive? And the same for Ajax's Joden.

[orzeu]

but if i'll call sachnin supporters ( lukasz surma's team) stinking muslims you'll probably say that i'm a racist. you refuse to understand that using the word "jew" as curse or an insult really offends us.

Because this is as stupid as if I said:
"Calling us Poles insults us, you must call us (e.g.) 'the magnificient proud and glorious polish people' otherwise we will feel offended"

And here is one more, you said that word "jew" is as offensive as "stinking muslim" ()
So the word "jew" has in it the adjective" stinking" And what about expression "stinking jew" ? Double offensive or what?

This is unbelievable that someone can say and really think that the word 'jew' is a curse or an insult. Come on, insult me and call me "catholic" or "Pole"!

[it]

the fact that calling someone a jew is an insult really irritates us.

And that`s a point not understood by many Poles.
People don`t think saying "jew" as an insult... just like "a dog", "a pig" for example.
But this is rather silliness than anti-semites and generally there is no hatred for Jews in that behaviour.
Although I really understand, something like that can irritate you.

[Pallamanski]

but if i'll call sachnin supporters ( lukasz surma's team) stinking muslims you'll probably say that i'm a racist. you refuse to understand that using the word "jew" as curse or an insult really offends us.

Well not really... In Denmark where I live are many muslims and they are racists as well.

Did you know in some parts of Copenhagen you can't walk with a kalot (sacred jewish hat) without getting insulted. That's where there is a huge number of muslim minorities located.

Even though you claim Polish people as anti-semites despite the fact that such a scenario probably would never happen in Poland.

What we sing about our BIGGEST rival should be put out of any context by anybody from outside Poland. Just because you feel offended doesn't mean we gonna change our chants for domestic games!

[neri]

so i guess this banner isn't offensive towards jews
dying to hear your explanation about it

[Pallamanski]

That's not a Jewish person illustrated... he's Danish - that's how we look in Denmark

[Heban]

Beitar fans

You try to make people belive that we are anti-semites. Please stop your silly propaganda. When you loose logical arguments, you always keep continue only with one subject which is anti-semites issue. This is your holly right to be anti-polish, but stop telling us that we are the worst anti-semite people all over the world. Before you have recover your land after 2000 years, Poland was like your 2-nd motherland and better if you shut up and start think about it much deeper. I don`t expect any respect from you but again - stop offend me and rest of the Poles, please. For God`s sake - respect us if you expect to be respected. I`m sure you can find as many anti- Polish behaviors in Israel as anti-semites behavior in Poland. The only difference is,I don`t care about them. I`m not trying to persuade non stop any of you that you are anti- Polish like you do in other way. For me the real anti-semites were the nazis, who had killed so many Jews ( and other nations as well - Poland lost more souls during the WW II then you). These days you find yourself anti-semites only because you might not like Jews for some reasons, for example because of the palestinian issue

Ps. that`s my first and last statement about all that.

This forum conserns football matters.

[neri]

And that`s a point not understood by many Poles. People don`t think saying "jew" as an insult... just like "a dog", "a pig" for example. But this is rather silliness than anti-semites and generally there is no hatred for Jews in that behaviour. Although I really understand, something like that can irritate you.

at last, someone understands what i'm trying to say.

[orzeu]

so i guess this banner isn't offensive towards jews dying to hear your explanation about it

Towards jews yes. Towards Jews - not.
Already told you the difference between jews, the nicknkname of our local rival and the Jews.
This is a guy dressed in striped shirt, so as Cracovia fan.

[Mishuh]

so i guess this banner isn't offensive towards jews dying to hear your explanation about it

It uses the stereotype that is widespread around the world and certainly wasn't developed in Poland!
As it is about being stingy, it might as well have used the stereotype of a Scotsman, but the problem is... our rivals are called jews

Yes, I know it may be irritating, just like the stereotypes Germans have of Poles. but treating this as an assault (that provoked a massive attack from your fellow fans' side) is just really exagerrating the situation.

That's not a Jewish person illustrated... he's Danish - that's how we look in Denmark

I really love your disgust towards Danes

[Pallamanski]

Go and feel offended somewhere else. This banner are to anger Cracovia Kraków not the State of Israel! Really, you are huge whiner!

Wisla and Cracovia are in a war with each other and we use every aspect to anger each other. It is VERY important that you don't start questioning these facts!

These are domestic interests only and we don't want Jews from Israel's oppinion. I can see why you feel insulted but there's nothing we're gonna change about it really

so i guess this banner isn't offensive towards jews dying to hear your explanation about it

[Chorynatrzykolory]

I have proposition to all Beitar fans who are writing on this forum. You should once a day switch off the Internet , stop talking about anty-semitic and go outiside and take a deep breath . It is more healthy

[neri]

you have to understand that a jew that comes here and see that banner isn't aware of all those Jews- jews stuff. you can't deny that the caricture of the jew is very offensive.this guy may wear a cracovia shirt but he still reprsents the antisemitic sterotype about jews.
we don't take it as "stingy" thing.

well, i tried to explain our point of view.
good night and good luck.

[Pablooo]

you have to understand that a jew that comes here and see that banner isn't aware of all those Jews- jews stuff. you can't deny that the caricture of the jew is very offensive.this guy may wear a cracovia shirt but he still reprsents the antisemitic sterotype about jews. we don't take it as "stingy" thing. well, i tried to explain our point of view. good night and good luck.

antisemtic stereothype? what is antisemtic? avaricious?


People in Europe say that Poles r drunkards and thiefs. So... what kind of stereothype is that? ANTYPOLES?!

[Mishuh]

you have to understand that a jew that comes here and see that banner isn't aware of all those Jews- jews stuff. you can't deny that the caricture of the jew is very offensive.this guy may wear a cracovia shirt but he still reprsents the antisemitic sterotype about jews. we don't take it as "stingy" thing. well, i tried to explain our point of view. good night and good luck.

No problemo. You however should also try and understand that symbols like this are not used with intention to attack Jews/Israelis, but to make Cracovia a bit pissed off. And it is about being stingy, because (as if you didn't know it...) there is a global stereotype of Jews being stingy. I won't examine it's roots, but there is. If you don't take it that way- your call. But remember- you make that call, you may try and act hurt by the whole world, but if you had more distance to the case, you would notice that such stereotypes are common for every nation and religion.

[Triodante]

And that`s a point not understood by many Poles. People don`t think saying "jew" as an insult... just like "a dog", "a pig" for example. But this is rather silliness than anti-semites and generally there is no hatred for Jews in that behaviour. Although I really understand, something like that can irritate you.

Exactly. Calling Cracovia "jews" may be irritating and stupid, but it's hard to treat that as a real antisemitism cause there's no real ideology that comes with it. The formal origin or the look of this expression may be antisemistic, but the meaning is not. And so people who use it have usually nothing to do with antisemitism.

Besides this whole discussion is sick. We will never really understand Jews experiences and the meaning o Holocaust for them, and they will never really understand the slaughter that the Nazis and communists had made to us and how is it important for us.

This topic should be a place to talk about football not history or politics.

[Beitar-Jerusalem]

That's not a Jewish person illustrated... he's Danish - that's how we look in Denmark

Yeah, right. How could'nt we think about it. It's so simple.

Blaaaaaa...

[Beitar Jerusalem F.C.]

yea, samkal is right... this "Jewish" part is irrelevant for the match. i don't remember talking like that in Copenhagen's forum...
let's get back to TOTAL FOOTBALL POST, ALRIGHT?

[Paparapa]

People all over are right when saying "don't behave like a jew".Wherever you appear there is always a fucking mess.

to all jewish people-stop fucking around your nation at this message board.You are tiring.

You've got the best hooligans,the best football team,the best ultras - you are on the top everywhere and always.Nobody could be even compared to you.





p.s. Yes,I am a kind of anti-semitic.Especially,when I meet people like you.

[dj_ibutti]

Come on.... we - Poles - have experienced almost the same level of nazis-cruelity as Jews. And we're not like: "wooo... everybody's against us, hoooly crap!". Maybe it's high time you (Jews) thought about reasons of "nobody likes us" ? Do you really think, that we don't have anything more useful to do, than offending you? Shortly: I don't give a shit about You, Your Religion, Your country etc. Believe me - I can imagine my world without Jews. Same like: World without Iraq, France, Holland, Kosovo, Tibet, Germany, Russia and any other country all over the World, beside Poland of course. I do care only about my Country, my nation, my religion.

[As]

I'm sure the guys that are yapping here the most, won't move their arses to the away game! I'm speaking of those who can afford the trip and still have some dayoffs left to use.

[Mishuh]

I'm sure the guys that are yapping here the most, won't move their arses to the away game! I'm speaking of those who can afford the trip and still have some dayoffs left to use.

Lucky bastards I would say...

[As]

Go and feel offended somewhere else. This banner are to anger Cracovia Kraków not the State of Israel! Really, you are huge whiner! Wisla and Cracovia are in a war with each other and we use every aspect to anger each other. It is VERY important that you don't start questioning these facts! These are domestic interests only and we don't want Jews from Israel's oppinion. I can see why you feel insulted but there's nothing we're gonna change about it really

Cracovia 'Jew' and Israeli 'Jew" are two totally different things. "jew' in reference to Cracovia fan is not an anti-sami thing!! It's just their kind of nickname. That is why the Jew on the banner is wearing the Cravoia colours.
Cracovia got their nickname after world war two when naming somebody a jew was offensive. that happened because there was loads of Jewish activists in Soviet Party which took over the control over Poland after WW2 and let's just say that comunism isn't the most popular political doctrine in Poland. Anyway if we call Cracovia fan a Jew it's not anti-semi, same as if you call a policeman fu**cking bitch or Pig doesn't mean that you hate dogs or animals in general.

Ease up fellas, let's all enjoy this fine evening.

Choose BUD Light!!

P.S. to those hotheads who just don't know when to shut up

[As]

Lucky bastards I would say...

Not me anyway

[Jay-Z]

[gdsmk]

and you know what, besides pictures above, I find many similarities between Beitar fans and Cracovia fans... especially when it comes to forum posting. I hope the results between teams will be the same.

[Krystian14]

Jewish fans from Beitar make enormous mistake writing on this website. Nobody here dont looking for a new friends in Israel. Propably better is find some fans from Palestine - there are really courageous and belligerent people

I command you: www.cracovia.krakow.pl - this guys want belong to your nation !!

Sorry but I newer before hear nothing about hooligans from Israel. What does it look there? Just dont tell lie this time..


Shalom

[KuKoC]

so i guess this banner isn't offensive towards jews dying to hear your explanation about it

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']As you can see the guy is wearing a Cracovia shirt, therefore he is representing a "cracovia jew" not the Jew in the meaning of a Israeli nation.

On another hand, you Israelis are so brainwashed with propaganda, you believe that Poles are anti-semitic without even knowing anyone of polish nationality.
Your newspapers write of "polish concentration camps" when these camps were set up, and operated by GERMANS. Therefore they were/are GERMAN concentration camps. Poles died in these same camps as much as Jews, remember that.
Poles were also dying fighting throughout the war on all fronts, fighting under different banners and also in numerous civilian uprisings. It was the Poles who saved so many Jews from certain death, by hiding them in their attics, basements etc. And do you guys know what the penalty was if Germans discovered that you were hiding a Jew? It was EXECUTION of the whole family. You must also remember that Poland was the ONLY country in which death for “collaborating” with Jews was established, and Poles still saved so many Jews, unlike a lot of other European countries where there was no death penalty if caught.

So to recap.
1. Poles lets the Jews live in Poland when every other country is persecuting them.
2. Jews live in Poland for hundreds of years as equal citizens.
3. Poles risk their and their own family’s life to save their jewish neighbors.

My question is why do you hate Poles? Why accuse them of being anti-semitic on every occasion?


Anyway believe it or not, but any REAL anti-semitism there is in the world today is caused by JEWS acting like masters of the universe, and all the other so called anti-semitism is just jewish propaganda to get their way in [/FONT]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']everything.

PEACE!! [/FONT]

[Omer]

Segment of video of the audience in which show 2 sympathizer stereotypes on flag that he actually mountain and conquerors him, in the anthem of the movement appear the words to die or to occupy the mountain. What your mind?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWbOfszfeUU

[dorotja]

Jewish fans from Beitar make enormous mistake writing on this website.

Our Forum offers unlimited access for everybody, including our rivals fans - unless they crash the gates or overstep the rules. But that refers both to the hosts and visitors, as well as the banning system which does not take nationality, religious or political affiliation and club colours into account.

We don't have to be excessively hospitable, but does not mean we ought to be hostile, as there's no reason for it. The number of people participating in the discussion with our visitors proves your theory wrong.