i really want to hear your explanation.
enlighten me.

I know the history very well trust me, we have also alot of racist people in israel too, but unfortunately we live in hard environment with alot of enemys. Therefor we are very sensitive about racist comments on jews or holocauts comments. so our instinct reaction is to attack back, our power to stay together and never give up, I wrote it more then once, we are very Zionistic.

All over the world there are anti-semitics, but especially in poland there is alot of groups, maybe the largest in the world. we don't have nothing against you - we have against the one who is offend and insults jews.

About the "jude Gang" you promise it has no connection with jew or anti-semitic songs, but we the isralies, explicit it as racist comments on jews. we do that too, but when it comes to jews or israel, it is hard to stay calm and be quiet. maybe the media or some wisla fans trying to push this up again so we will fight between us so they can have shit to write on newspaper.

yeah, that's certainly a good reason to hate the jewish people.

I'm not sure if my English is good enough to talk about it, really ;)

Read that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...Jews_in_Poland


U should know that a number of anti-semitic in Poland is the same as in Germany or Italy or any other countries.
I'm not anti-semitic, ok? But it's a historical problem. People in Poland don't like Germans because of history and don't like Russians because of the same. Think that u know why.

A lot of people don't like Jews but don't know why. I'm neutral about you.

So why a lot of anti-semitics? Ask them (if there are any. u all said that are).

But I still don't know what r u talking about. Who's trying to be anti-semitic? I don't know? In our phorum or yours? I can't read everything in the internet ;-)

Well one of the explanations could be that Poland is a catholic country... the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was undertaken by the Jewish people. I don't know much about anti semitism in Poland because I don't care about people who are anti-semites.

But nazi Skinheads you will find everywhere... some people who are uneducated and hatefull might find minoreties to pick on you know! Germany and Sweden have many of these people... but they are very few in numbers regardless.

But just because you suffered from the Holocaust doesn't give you the right to question racists or the likes when many fans of Beitar are racists and right winged fanatics theme selves!

Man... what books youe read? Let me guess. The author was some orthodox-jew? :lol:
Come on and stop making us laugh with saying that "in Poland there is a lot of antisemtisim".
Szewach Weiss, ambassador of Israel in Poland said once: "I have no idea why there is such a bad opinion about Poles in Israel. The fact is that in Canada in one year happens more antisemitic incidients then in Poland in decade!" The Israeli Ambassador said it! You don't believe him?
Have you heard where the banished from France, UK, Spain, Italy and rest of the Europe Jews escaped about 300 years ago? To Poland and Russia! Because there was the only place where they could live normally. In Poland antisemitism is even smaller then in, for example, France or Holland. Go and see it! And after visiting, burn your books because it's rubbish.

Saying that we sing at the derby with cracovia racist song is even better :lol:
we don"t sing anytinhg about Jews from Israel, we sing about jews from Cracovia. jews is the nickname, not a nation, got it? Just like Tottenham jews has nothing in common with the "original" Jews.
Besides, "racism" accusation from someone who is supporter of club that is well known as racist is at least arrogant.. And very amusing too :lol:

And finally, so what if someone is anti-semitic? You are anti-Pole, and so what? I don't care. Stop thinking of yourselves as some special nation, you are the same people as Dutches, Russians, Poles, Koreans and the rest of the world. But noone accuses noone of being "anti-French" or "anti-Korean". Only you have that annoying feature. I don't care what you think about me, hide your own fears in the pocket.

PS- This is really great:
:lol:
In short, "we have a tough situation so we can be racist! you can't because... you can't!" :lol:
Man, you have no idea what we had in Poland in the last 300 hundred years. 123 years of slavery, two world wars(the same as for jews!), 50 years of communism etc. According to your words, we can be a racists too! :lol: But unfortunatelly for you, we aren't. Or to be more specific, in Poland there is the same amount of racists as everwhere but Israel, cause you're the most racist nation in the world :)

Oh, God damn it, belive me it's nothin' comperin' to what your army is doin' to innocent people.
Simply, i thought that Jews are more inteligent people. Is it so hard to think Bjerusalem? Stop bull-shittin' 'bout US insulting YOU, and look how your mates messed up out forum by dozens of pointless topics. You're saing that Polish people are anti-semits, well that sound funny, becouse you are anti-everyone:foch:. You say that your people are very sensitive 'bout this issue, i think you are over-sensitive. We can't even fart without being called rasists. But of course it's so freakin' easy to repeat what people say 'bout Poland. Come here and check it for your own. Dude, grow up or take your toys to difrent sand-pit.
And it's really funny to hear, that you have better suporters. Did you saw us? I won't judge who's better before game starts, but belive me, or not, we are one of the best in Europe. Ow, and i have to admit that you are arogant sack of shit(no offence, everybody shears mine opinion here):-D

Go home you lame internet fighter!

yes yes :lol:
We are the largest anti-semitics all over the World. Even larger than Hezbollah & Al-Aksa together. :lol:

joke :)

Bjerusalem, I think you're from MOSSAD :))( המוסד למודיעין ולתפקידים מיוחדים, Ha-Mossad le-Modiin u-le-Tafkidim Mejuchadim)

lans by wikpedia :D

As someone said, fans of Jeruzalems can't said anything wrong about Arkadij Gajdamak becouse if they will do it then he will leave this team forever. Haha~ monkeys of Arkadij :****




Jude 1:4 Wisla ;)))!!!
Wisla 5:0 Jude ;))!!!

I pitty you. Poles are not anti-semites, remember that, but I must admit that we feel sceptical towards Jews these days. But that is mainly the Jews fault. You know why? Because the Second World War was a big tragedy for all nations not only Jews. Poles were first to put a stand to the German threat and we've payed a greatly for that. We could have just give up like the Czehs or the French, but we've decided to fight although our chances were minimal. Even when our goverment surrendered, the poles still fought. They fought on the Polish grounds, they fought in the see, they fought in the air defending the last free European capitol. They spilt they're blood on almost every frontline of that terrible war. And even those poles that did not fight with arms, they still lead a war of their own a struggle to survive. And yet even though the times were enough hard for them, they still risked, they risked their lives and the lives of their loved ones, to save lives of the Jews. And they didn't expect to hear "thank you", they just felt that it was the right thing to do.
You didn't thank them then and we do not expect you to thank them now. But when I open a newspaper and I read that some Jewish official said that the Poles are responsible for the holocaust or turn on the telly and hear that Auschwitz was a Polish facility, and when I read this forum and see you calling poles antisemites or nazis and repeating those awful lies it just makes me want to shout. And to me it is no surprise that many Poles are hostile towards Jews when every day have to read or listen or watch Jews insulting us, our grandparents our country and our history.

Why the hell do you care of Jude Gang?! It's a group of Cracovia, not Wisla. They called themselves with this name, it's THEIR problem. And antisemitic stuff in Krakow (you still haven't shown me who provoked you, are they some vanishing leprechauns)?It was never aimed at Jewish clubs, we haven't played any for decades and frankly I don't think anybody here cares about Israeli football. Cracovia are nicknamed "Jews" and so they are insulted, but that doesn't mean it's aimed at Israelis. However- you may think what you want, you've proven there is no way to convince you to anything apart from Beitar being best team in all aspects.

I'm diehard radical Anti-Frenchman! :)

I am Anti-Danish...!

Why do you seek only bad things in Poland? I agree there are some/ a lot antisimitic people in our country but if you only wanted you could see for example:

- Festival of Jewish Culture starting this week in Cracow - one of the biggest and the most important in the world - thousands of people from Poland and all over the world come to the final concert: http://www.jewishfestival.pl/index.php?lang=e
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNdaMbUyJAw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQXFb...eature=related
Are those people antesimitic (most of them are Polish)?

- coat of arms of my home town Kolbuszowa (an old "sztetl" in Southeast Poland): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolbuszowa

You see what you want to see.

for us,the terms "jews" and "israelis" means pretty much the same.
the fact that calling someone a jew is an insult really irritates us.

no no no...
Blame Canada !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w_Ghetto
http://www.jewishfestival.pl/index.php?lang=e
firstly read some article about Kraków, then think ( dont hurry :) ) and then say somthing more about us...

What can we do about the fact that you get irritated? Cracovia and Wisla are 100 year old clubs. In Cracovia's early history the team adopted many players who had Jewish origin. That's why we call them "Jews". Like every rivalising teams we find things that are different about each other and we pick on those things!

I can't see why it is more bad than you Beitar fans calling Maccabi fans whores - it is disrespectful, yes! But you are not a rival of Wisla krakow so you shouldn't care about what we sing in the Polish League

Sorry that the discussion got changed from professional talking to more political arguing. i thought fooball is a way to escape thay, we have so many in my country :(

Have a great day and hopefully glory defeat :)

BTW

Jewish - religion
Israel - nationality

Not the same!!

samkal77

but if i'll call sachnin supporters ( lukasz surma's team) stinking muslims you'll probably say that i'm a racist.
you refuse to understand that using the word "jew" as curse or an insult really offends us.

An insult works only if the other side feels insulted. I hope you know what I mean. Cracovia's jews (I'll explain why in small letters) is traditionally a nickname, not an insult as such. It came from them having some supposed Jewish roots and very liberal policy towards players of different natyionalities and religion.
And the fact that they called themselves "Jude Gang" and their stadium "holy ground" just means they take it as normal thing. That's just how they are being called, althoguh many don't like it.

And for me Jew and Israeli is definately not the same. Polish grammar even distinguishes these two cases. We write "jew" (small letters) for someone who is of Jewish belief (we write all religions in small letters) and in capital letters Jew means Israeli. That's why Cracovia are called jews (as a nickname), while you're Jews(=Israelis).

I don't really see antisemitism in the naming itself.
But of course some supporters use the Jewish symbols to piss Cracovia off. Why? Because they like pissing Cracovia off, not because they are antisemitic. (surely I cannot speak for everyone, I'm sure there are some radicals hating Jews, but it's just a bunch, don't judge everyone).

Just of curiosity: Do you also think that calling Tottenham Yids is abusive? And the same for Ajax's Joden.

Because this is as stupid as if I said:
"Calling us Poles insults us, you must call us (e.g.) 'the magnificient proud and glorious polish people' otherwise we will feel offended" :lol:

And here is one more, you said that word "jew" is as offensive as "stinking muslim" (????????????)
So the word "jew" has in it the adjective" stinking" ???? And what about expression "stinking jew" ? Double offensive or what? :lol:

This is unbelievable that someone can say and really think that the word 'jew' is a curse or an insult. Come on, insult me and call me "catholic" or "Pole"! :lol: :lol: :lol:

And that`s a point not understood by many Poles.
People don`t think saying "jew" as an insult... just like "a dog", "a pig" for example.
But this is rather silliness than anti-semites and generally there is no hatred for Jews in that behaviour.
Although I really understand, something like that can irritate you.

Well not really... In Denmark where I live are many muslims and they are racists as well.

Did you know in some parts of Copenhagen you can't walk with a kalot (sacred jewish hat) without getting insulted. That's where there is a huge number of muslim minorities located.

Even though you claim Polish people as anti-semites despite the fact that such a scenario probably would never happen in Poland.

What we sing about our BIGGEST rival should be put out of any context by anybody from outside Poland. Just because you feel offended doesn't mean we gonna change our chants for domestic games!

so i guess this banner isn't offensive towards jews
dying to hear your explanation about it
http://i32.tinypic.com/domc06.jpg

That's not a Jewish person illustrated... he's Danish - that's how we look in Denmark ;)

Beitar fans

You try to make people belive that we are anti-semites. Please stop your silly propaganda. When you loose logical arguments, you always keep continue only with one subject which is anti-semites issue. This is your holly right to be anti-polish, but stop telling us that we are the worst anti-semite people all over the world. Before you have recover your land after 2000 years, Poland was like your 2-nd motherland and better if you shut up and start think about it much deeper. I don`t expect any respect from you but again - stop offend me and rest of the Poles, please. For God`s sake - respect us if you expect to be respected. I`m sure you can find as many anti- Polish behaviors in Israel as anti-semites behavior in Poland. The only difference is,I don`t care about them. I`m not trying to persuade non stop any of you that you are anti- Polish like you do in other way. For me the real anti-semites were the nazis, who had killed so many Jews ( and other nations as well - Poland lost more souls during the WW II then you). These days you find yourself anti-semites only because you might not like Jews for some reasons, for example because of the palestinian issue

Ps. that`s my first and last statement about all that.

This forum conserns football matters.

at last, someone understands what i'm trying to say.

Towards jews yes. Towards Jews - not.
Already told you the difference between jews, the nicknkname of our local rival and the Jews.
This is a guy dressed in striped shirt, so as Cracovia fan.

It uses the stereotype that is widespread around the world and certainly wasn't developed in Poland! :)
As it is about being stingy, it might as well have used the stereotype of a Scotsman, but the problem is... our rivals are called jews :P

Yes, I know it may be irritating, just like the stereotypes Germans have of Poles. but treating this as an assault (that provoked a massive attack from your fellow fans' side) is just really exagerrating the situation.

I really love your disgust towards Danes :D

Go and feel offended somewhere else. This banner are to anger Cracovia Kraków not the State of Israel! Really, you are huge whiner!

Wisla and Cracovia are in a war with each other and we use every aspect to anger each other. It is VERY important that you don't start questioning these facts!

These are domestic interests only and we don't want Jews from Israel's oppinion. I can see why you feel insulted but there's nothing we're gonna change about it really

I have proposition to all Beitar fans who are writing on this forum. You should once a day switch off the Internet , stop talking about anty-semitic and go outiside and take a deep breath . :D It is more healthy :D

you have to understand that a jew that comes here and see that banner isn't aware of all those Jews- jews stuff. you can't deny that the caricture of the jew is very offensive.this guy may wear a cracovia shirt but he still reprsents the antisemitic sterotype about jews.
we don't take it as "stingy" thing.

well, i tried to explain our point of view.
good night and good luck.

antisemtic stereothype? what is antisemtic? :lol: avaricious?


People in Europe say that Poles r drunkards and thiefs. So... what kind of stereothype is that? ANTYPOLES?! :lol:

No problemo. You however should also try and understand that symbols like this are not used with intention to attack Jews/Israelis, but to make Cracovia a bit pissed off. And it is about being stingy, because (as if you didn't know it...) there is a global stereotype of Jews being stingy. I won't examine it's roots, but there is. If you don't take it that way- your call. But remember- you make that call, you may try and act hurt by the whole world, but if you had more distance to the case, you would notice that such stereotypes are common for every nation and religion.

Exactly. Calling Cracovia "jews" may be irritating and stupid, but it's hard to treat that as a real antisemitism cause there's no real ideology that comes with it. The formal origin or the look of this expression may be antisemistic, but the meaning is not. And so people who use it have usually nothing to do with antisemitism.

Besides this whole discussion is sick. We will never really understand Jews experiences and the meaning o Holocaust for them, and they will never really understand the slaughter that the Nazis and communists had made to us and how is it important for us.

This topic should be a place to talk about football not history or politics.

Yeah, right. How could'nt we think about it. It's so simple.

Blaaaaaa...

yea, samkal is right... this "Jewish" part is irrelevant for the match. i don't remember talking like that in Copenhagen's forum...
let's get back to TOTAL FOOTBALL POST, ALRIGHT?

People all over are right when saying "don't behave like a jew".Wherever you appear there is always a fucking mess.

to all jewish people-stop fucking around your nation at this message board.You are tiring.

You've got the best hooligans,the best football team,the best ultras - you are on the top everywhere and always.Nobody could be even compared to you.

:lol:



p.s. Yes,I am a kind of anti-semitic.Especially,when I meet people like you.

Come on.... we - Poles - have experienced almost the same level of nazis-cruelity as Jews. And we're not like: "wooo... everybody's against us, hoooly crap!". Maybe it's high time you (Jews) thought about reasons of "nobody likes us" ? Do you really think, that we don't have anything more useful to do, than offending you? Shortly: I don't give a shit about You, Your Religion, Your country etc. Believe me - I can imagine my world without Jews. Same like: World without Iraq, France, Holland, Kosovo, Tibet, Germany, Russia and any other country all over the World, beside Poland of course. I do care only about my Country, my nation, my religion.